Legislature(2005 - 2006)HOUSE FINANCE 519

02/13/2006 01:30 PM House FINANCE


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ HB 150 LICENSING RADIOLOGIC TECHNICIANS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ HB 331 UNDERAGE MILITARY ON LICENSED PREMISES TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 331(L&C) Out of Committee
+= HB 334 MUNICIPAL PROPERTY TAX DEFERRAL/EXEMPTION TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled But Not Heard
+ HB 357 STATUTORY REFERENCES TO DISABILITIES TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 357(FIN) Out of Committee
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                  HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                     February 13, 2006                                                                                          
                         1:41 p.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer called the House  Finance Committee meeting to                                                                   
order at 1:41:46 PM.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kevin Meyer, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Bill Stoltze, Vice-Chair                                                                                         
Representative Richard Foster                                                                                                   
Representative Mike Hawker                                                                                                      
Representative Jim Holm                                                                                                         
Representative Reggie Joule                                                                                                     
Representative Mike Kelly                                                                                                       
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
Representative Bruce Weyhrauch                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carl Moses                                                                                                       
Representative Mike Chenault, Co-Chair                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Jim Van  Horn, Staff, Representative  Jim Elkins;  Clayton E.                                                                   
Love,  Disabled  American  Veterans,  Juneau;  John  Wilkins,                                                                   
Disabled   American   Veterans,   Juneau;   Howard   Colbert,                                                                   
Commander, Disabled  American Veterans; Representative  Peggy                                                                   
Wilson; Aaron Danielson, Staff,  Representative Peggy Wilson;                                                                   
Gale    Sinnott,    Director,    Division    of    Vocational                                                                   
Rehabilitation,    Department   of   Labor    and   Workforce                                                                   
Development;   Don  Brandon,   Coordinator,  Americans   with                                                                   
Disability   Act,   Department   of   Labor   and   Workforce                                                                   
Development;   Heath  Hilyard,   Staff,  Representative   Tom                                                                   
Anderson;  Mike Ford,  Alaska  Native Health  Board,  Juneau;                                                                   
Louanne Christian,  Staff, House  Finance Committee;  Barbara                                                                   
Huff  Tuckness,  Director  of  Governmental  and  Legislative                                                                   
Affairs, Teamsters Local 959                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Clyde  Pearce,   Radiation  Inspector,  Division   of  Public                                                                   
Health,  Laboratories,  Radiological  Health,  Department  of                                                                   
Health and Social  Services, Anchorage; William  W. Resinger,                                                                   
Radiologist,  MatSu;  Donna  Elliot,   Alaska  Native  Tribal                                                                   
Health (ANTHC); Donna Rufsholm,  Alaska Society of Radiologic                                                                   
Technologists,  Homer;  Shelly  Hughes, Alaska  Primary  Care                                                                   
Association (APCA), MatSu                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB 331    "An Act relating to access by persons under 21                                                                        
          years   of  age  to   premises  licensed   to  sell                                                                   
          alcoholic beverages as clubs."                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
          CSHB 331 (L&C) was REPORTED out of Committee with                                                                     
          a  "do pass"  recommendation  and with  a new  zero                                                                   
          fiscal  note by  the Department  of Public  Safety,                                                                   
          and with  a zero fiscal  note by the  Department of                                                                   
          Military and Veterans Affairs.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HB 357    "An Act updating the terminology in statutes for                                                                      
          persons  with disabilities;  and  providing for  an                                                                   
          effective date."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
          CSHB 357  (FIN) was REPORTED out of  Committee with                                                                   
          a "do  Pass" recommendation and with  a zero fiscal                                                                   
          note  by  the  Department   of  Health  and  Social                                                                   
          Services,  and  with  a  zero fiscal  note  by  the                                                                   
          Department of Labor and Workforce Development.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HB 150    "An Act requiring licensure of occupations                                                                            
          relating   to  radiologic   technology,   radiation                                                                   
          therapy,  and  nuclear   medicine  technology;  and                                                                   
          providing for an effective date."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
          HB 150 was heard and  HELD in committee for further                                                                   
          consideration.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HB 334    "An Act relating to an exemption from and deferral                                                                    
          of  municipal property taxes  for certain  types of                                                                   
          deteriorated property."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
          HB 334 was scheduled but not heard.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:42:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 331                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act relating to access  by persons under 21 years of                                                                   
     age to premises licensed  to sell alcoholic beverages as                                                                   
     clubs."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JIM VAN HORN, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE JIM ELKINS, read the                                                                        
sponsor statement for HB 331 as follows:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     House  Bill  331 is  a  simple,  single page  bill  that                                                                   
     amends AS 04.11.110(g) by  authorizing access by persons                                                                   
     under  21 years  of age,  who possess  a valid  military                                                                   
     active  duty  ID card,  to  a club's  licensed  premises                                                                   
     without  specific authorization  of the Alaska  Beverage                                                                   
     Control (ABC) board in certain circumstances.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Under  present state law,  persons under  the age  of 21                                                                   
     cannot  be  on  premises   licensed  to  sell  alcoholic                                                                   
     beverages unless a parent  or legal guardian accompanies                                                                   
     them.   At  the same  time,  it is  recognized that  the                                                                   
     Federal  Government  is  the  legal  guardian  of  those                                                                   
     active duty personnel under the age of 21.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     All active  duty personnel  are eligible for  membership                                                                   
     in veteran's  organizations,  including those  under the                                                                   
     age of  21.  Current law  causes a dilemma to  the under                                                                   
     age  person.    Here  they  are,  eligible  to  join  an                                                                   
     organization, but  unable to go to the  meetings because                                                                   
     they are under age.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     The legislation will in no  way allow the consumption of                                                                   
     alcoholic beverages  by the persons under the  age of 21                                                                   
     in licensed  clubs.   It will  allow active duty  people                                                                   
     under  21 to avail  themselves of  the club's  amenities                                                                   
     such as television, pool table, lounge, etc.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Van  Horn related a  situation in Seward  involving Coast                                                                   
Guard personnel, which instigated this legislation.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:46:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Stoltze   asked   if   this   is   companion                                                                   
legislation to Senator  Huggin's bill.  Mr.  Van Horn replied                                                                   
that it is.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer addressed the potential  problem of a 20-year-                                                                   
old  Marine  drinking,  driving,   and  then  getting  in  an                                                                   
accident, and the  possible liability.  Mr.  Van Horn replied                                                                   
that  the  situation  is  similar to  that  of  any  underage                                                                   
drinking  in a  bar.    The bar  or  club is  licensed  under                                                                   
current   law,    has   received   training,    and   assumes                                                                   
responsibility  in such a situation.   Co-Chair  Meyer agreed                                                                   
that  it is  no  different  than  in restaurants  that  serve                                                                   
alcohol.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stoltze added  to Mr.  Van Horn's  testimony.                                                                   
He opined  that is a  matter of pride  to bring  new military                                                                   
personnel  into  local  military  posts.   It  is  not  about                                                                   
alcohol consumption.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Van Horn  addressed the "typo" error, which  required the                                                                   
writing of a new zero fiscal note.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:50:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker   questioned  if  "someone   currently                                                                   
possessing  an   active  duty  card"  is  adequate   for  all                                                                   
situations  such as  those in  the  reserves.   Mr. Van  Horn                                                                   
related that the  original intent of the bill  was to address                                                                   
active  duty personnel.   Many  in the reserve  don't have  a                                                                   
card,  but only  a  temporary  card or  paper.    He gave  an                                                                   
example  in  Ketchikan where  there  is  a Joint  Task  Force                                                                   
participating  for two  weeks in a  military training  center                                                                   
and using the local VFW post.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker asked  if the  sponsor concludes  that                                                                   
the bill  is adequate to  address this  issue.  Mr.  Van Horn                                                                   
reported  that the  bill should  address access  to posts  by                                                                   
active duty personnel.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:53:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CLAYTON  E.  LOVE,  COMMANDER,   DISABLED  AMERICAN  VETERANS                                                                   
(DAV), JUNEAU,  testified that  veterans' organizations  do a                                                                   
great job of  policing their own members.   He emphasized the                                                                   
camaraderie  and  social  benefits of  allowing  active  duty                                                                   
military to go into a club.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JOHN WILKINS,  DISABLED AMERICAN VETERANS,  JUNEAU, testified                                                                   
in support  of HB 331.   He noted that allowing  young active                                                                   
military people into the clubs  would allow the older members                                                                   
to mentor the younger ones.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kelly requested  a definition of "active duty"                                                                   
and wondered  if it excludes  anyone.  Mr. Wilkins  suggested                                                                   
that it does not.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:59:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HOWARD   COBERT,  COMMANDER,   DISABLED  AMERICAN   VETERANS,                                                                   
JUNEAU, shared  the background  of DAV, which  was set  up by                                                                   
Congress.  He  maintained that there is no  alcohol served at                                                                   
DVA  functions,  which  serves  to  help  serve  veterans  by                                                                   
helping with paperwork.  The clubs  act as places for younger                                                                   
military to seek  out their peer group and  they police their                                                                   
members.  Representative  Stoltze agreed that  they are self-                                                                   
policing.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Foster introduced  UAF Cadet Major Dollemolle.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Van  Horn commented that  Josh Temple, a  Marine reserve,                                                                   
would be presenting Senator Huggin's bill in the future.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:05:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Foster  MOVED to REPORT CSHB 331  (L&C) out of                                                                   
committee   with    individual   recommendations    and   the                                                                   
accompanying fiscal notes.  There  being NO OBJECTION, it was                                                                   
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 357                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act updating the terminology in statutes for                                                                           
     persons with disabilities; and providing for an                                                                            
     effective date."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PEGGY WILSON  explained that  HB 357  updates                                                                   
the terminology  in statutes  for persons with  disabilities.                                                                   
After  the  American  with Disabilities  Act  of  1990,  most                                                                   
states  modified   their  statutes  to  reflect   a  positive                                                                   
reference - changing  the word "handicapped"  to "person with                                                                   
a disability".   This bill changes  all Alaska State Statutes                                                                   
to rid them  of this archaic reference that  has negative and                                                                   
demoralizing connotations in reference  to a person's ability                                                                   
and potential.   Using "a person with a  disability" reflects                                                                   
the language  that is  in Federal  legislation - the  Federal                                                                   
Workforce  Investment Act, the  American's with  Disabilities                                                                   
Act,  the Civil  Rights  Act of  1991;  The Individuals  with                                                                   
Disabilities Education Act (IDEA)  and the Rehabilitation Act                                                                   
of 1973 as amended in 1992 and 1998.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
These changes  are being  proposed in  consultation with  the                                                                   
Department  of Labor,  other state agencies,  and along  with                                                                   
the   Governor's   Council  on   Disabilities   and   Special                                                                   
Education.   There  is support  for this  bill from  numerous                                                                   
other organizations such as the  Southeast Alaska Independent                                                                   
Living   (SAIL)   Center,  which   represents   people   with                                                                   
disabilities.    This bill  is  not  designed to  modify  any                                                                   
existing requirements or exemptions,  nor will it be changing                                                                   
any  existing   requirements  or  exemptions  with   the  new                                                                   
terminology.     This   bill   is  designed   to  serve   the                                                                   
constituents of  everyone across the state that  are affected                                                                   
by this existing negative and demeaning terminology.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson  read  part  of a  letter  from  SAIL:                                                                   
"American consistently redefines  itself through language and                                                                   
subcultures.   In order to do  that, they often  use language                                                                   
to redefine  themselves.  Negroes  became blacks,  then afro-                                                                   
Americans,  homosexuals chose  the term  gay for  themselves.                                                                   
People with disabilities have  done the same during the years                                                                   
attempting  to   fight  the   stereotype  and  the   negative                                                                   
imagery."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wilson requested support for HB 357.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:09:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GALE SINNOT,  DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF VOCATION  REHABILITATION,                                                                   
DEPARTMENT  OF  LABOR AND  WORKFORCE  DEVELOPMENT,  explained                                                                   
that this  bill is not  just a Department  of Labor  bill, it                                                                   
crosses over  the Department of  Health and Social  Services,                                                                   
Department   of   Transportation   and   Public   Facilities,                                                                   
Department of Education and Early  Development, Department of                                                                   
Commerce  and Economic  Development, Department  of Law,  and                                                                   
Department  of Administration.   The word  handicapped  is an                                                                   
outdated  term that evokes  negatives  images.  The  proposed                                                                   
language is  a positive  change and  also mirrors changes  in                                                                   
federal  legislation.   She  related  broad  support for  the                                                                   
bill.  She added  that there is a zero fiscal  note attached.                                                                   
She requested that the committee support HB 357.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:11:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Stoltze  stated that he supports  the language                                                                   
change, but is  concerned about a possible impact  on private                                                                   
businesses.     He  pointed  out  that  the   Americans  with                                                                   
Disabilities  Act (ADA) had  some unintended consequences  on                                                                   
businesses.    He  wondered about  enforcement  of  the  bill                                                                   
regarding  handicapped signs  and  if there  is a  transition                                                                   
period for compliance.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sinnott clarified that the  bill does not change the law,                                                                   
just the  language  in Alaska  State Statutes.   There  is no                                                                   
repercussion  for  having  old   handicapped  parking  signs.                                                                   
Representative Stoltze shared  concern about past, unexpected                                                                   
consequences of the ADA.  He requested  a letter of intent by                                                                   
the sponsor in order to prevent such problems.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sinnott deferred to Mr. Brandon.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:14:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DON  BRANDON, STATE  DISABILITY  COORDINATOR, AMERICANS  WITH                                                                   
DISABILITY   ACT,   DEPARTMENT   OF   LABOR   AND   WORKFORCE                                                                   
DEVELOPMENT,    shared   his    personal   experience    with                                                                   
disabilities and society's labels.   He defined the phrase "a                                                                   
person with a disability" instead  of "handicapped" as a door                                                                   
opening to a  positive self-concept.  He emphasized  that the                                                                   
bill would  change the  wording in all  Alaska statutes.   He                                                                   
agreed  that   there  have  been  concerns  about   the  ADA.                                                                   
Handicapped  parking  signs will  change  as  the wording  in                                                                   
statute changes.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:18:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stoltze said he  didn't trust the  system and                                                                   
there are  some disabled who are  looking for lawsuits.   Mr.                                                                   
Brandon explained  reasons behind  the complaint  process and                                                                   
the need to use  the courts to address change  and to prevent                                                                   
discrimination.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly  spoke   in  support  of  the  language                                                                   
change, but also noted the backlash  associated with the ADA.                                                                   
He said  he does not want  DOT to have to  change handicapped                                                                   
parking signs as an unintended consequence.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Holm  shared his experience about  an accident                                                                   
that  resulted  in  the  loss  of  part  of  his  hand.    He                                                                   
emphasized  that he  is  not disabled  nor  handicapped.   He                                                                   
emphasized  that attitude  is  important and  he prefers  the                                                                   
word "challenged".   He  said that  he does  not want  to see                                                                   
people limited by a label.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Brandon agreed with Representative Holm.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch  asked  if Section  1,  legislative                                                                   
intent,  is  necessary.   He  also  questioned  if age  is  a                                                                   
handicap.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sinnott  replied that the  only intended word  change was                                                                   
handicap, and the inclusion of  age was already there and not                                                                   
considered.     Referring   to   Representative   Weyhrauch's                                                                   
question  about  Section 1,  Ms.  Sinnott reported  that  the                                                                   
Department  of Law assisted  in writing  the language  of the                                                                   
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:28:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
AARON DANIELSON,  STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE PEGGY  WILSON, stated                                                                   
that the reference to age was  already in the bill.  Co-Chair                                                                   
Meyer suggested  that legislative intent is  usually left out                                                                   
of bills.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker related  that  there are  two ways  to                                                                   
include a  non-statutory comment  in a  bill.  The  preferred                                                                   
method is  a letter  of intent.   Ms.  Wilson agreed  to that                                                                   
change  and will  work  with the  Department  of  Labor on  a                                                                   
letter of intent.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch added  that a  letter of intent  is                                                                   
also a vehicle that would address  Representative Kelly's and                                                                   
Representative Stoltze's concerns.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Joule  recollected that  governors  typically                                                                   
veto intent  language.   He stated  support  for a letter  of                                                                   
intent.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stoltze  noted  that his  concerns  could  be                                                                   
incorporated in a letter of intent.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:32:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stoltze MOVED  to ADOPT Conceptual  Amendment                                                                   
1, to delete Section 1.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  OBJECTED for discussion  purposes.  He                                                                   
suggested  that the  motion should  also  include adopting  a                                                                   
letter of  intent conforming  to legislative intent  language                                                                   
in Section 1.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Stoltze   incorporated    this   idea   into                                                                   
Conceptual Amendment 1.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker WITHDREW his OBJECTION.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There  being   NO  OBJECTION,  Conceptual  Amendment   1  was                                                                   
adopted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Foster MOVED  to  REPORT CSHB  357 (FIN),  as                                                                   
amended,  out of  Committee with  individual  recommendations                                                                   
and the accompanying fiscal notes.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Weyhrauch  OBJECTED.     He  requested   the                                                                   
Department  of  Labor to  get  back  to  him on  the  age-as-                                                                   
disability  issue.    Representative  Weyhrauch  REMOVED  his                                                                   
OBJECTION.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CSHB  357 (FIN)  was REPORTED  out  of Committee  with a  "do                                                                   
pass"  recommendation and  with  a zero  fiscal  note by  the                                                                   
Department  of Health and  Social Services,  and with  a zero                                                                   
fiscal  note  by  the  Department   of  Labor  and  Workforce                                                                   
Development.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
At-ease.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:39:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 150                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act  requiring licensure of occupations  relating to                                                                   
     radiologic  technology, radiation  therapy, and  nuclear                                                                   
     medicine  technology;  and  providing for  an  effective                                                                   
     date."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:40:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Stoltze  MOVED   to   ADOPT  the   Committee                                                                   
Substitute  (CS) for  HB 150,  labeled 24-LS0470\N,  Mischel,                                                                   
2/9/06.  There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HEATH HILYARD, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE  TOM ANDERSON, explained                                                                   
that the bill  establishes a full licensure  for radiological                                                                   
technicians and  a partial  licensure for limited  radiologic                                                                   
imagers.    Mr.  Hilyard  related that  the  new  CS  removed                                                                   
language from  House Judiciary Version  U.  On page  2, lines                                                                   
20-23   of   Version   U  were   removed   because   licensed                                                                   
practitioners already have no  restrictions on the ability to                                                                   
perform x-ray examinations for diagnostic purposes.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hilyard  explained that in  Version N, page 4,  lines 24-                                                                   
27, the  language regarding  limited radiologic imagers,  was                                                                   
changed to stipulate  a requirement of two years  of clinical                                                                   
experience.   Two  years was chosen  because  the bill  has a                                                                   
two-year  delayed effective  date.   Anyone performing  these                                                                   
duties, from the time the bill  passes until the time the law                                                                   
becomes effective,  would qualify for the  applied experience                                                                   
and would not need to enroll in a new program.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hilyard related  that the  third  change is  on page  5,                                                                   
beginning  on line 18  of Version  N, "or  if the program  is                                                                   
instructed by and  under the supervision of  a fully licensed                                                                   
radiographer  or licensed  practitioner  and  sponsored by  a                                                                   
medical facility, as defined in  AS 18.26.900".  The language                                                                   
was  added due  to  a  concern that  there  are  a number  of                                                                   
facilities  in  rural  Alaska  that  are  providing  training                                                                   
programs   that  would   not   qualify   under  the   earlier                                                                   
definitions.    This  language clarifies  that  any  facility                                                                   
providing training under the supervision  of a radiologist or                                                                   
a licensed practitioner is acceptable.   The intention of the                                                                   
new language is to address concerns  brought by practitioners                                                                   
in rural Alaska.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:45:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative    Kerttula   asked    where   the    licensed                                                                   
practitioner language was changed.    Mr. Hilyard referred to                                                                   
Version U, page 2, line 5, and  lines 20-23, to clarify which                                                                   
language was removed.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stoltze requested  information about  serious                                                                   
health risks.   Mr. Hilyard referred  to two articles  in the                                                                   
members'   packets,  a   report   from   the  University   of                                                                   
California,  Berkley (copy  on file),  and a  story from  the                                                                   
Sacramento Bee (copy on file),  which offer evidence of over-                                                                 
exposure to radiation through standard medical x-rays.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hilyard read from the Berkley report:                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     "There   is  the  assumption   that,  at  these   doses,                                                                   
     radiation doesn't  make a significant  contribution," he                                                                   
     said.   "But x-rays  are very  potent mutagens,  even at                                                                   
     low doses.   It's a  disaster that people  still believe                                                                   
    the `safe dose myth', that low doses are harmless".                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stoltze wondered  what motivated the  sponsor                                                                   
to write  this bill.  Mr.  Hilyard reported that he  does not                                                                   
know why Representative Anderson took this subject on.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Foster inquired  if the bill applies to dental                                                                   
x-ray technicians.  Mr. Hilyard replied that it does not.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:50:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Weyhrauch  inquired which groups  are in favor                                                                   
of  the   bill.    Mr.   Hilyard  replied  that   the  Alaska                                                                   
Association  of  Radiologic  Technicians,  the  Alaska  State                                                                   
Hospital Nursing  Association, and  the Alaska State  Medical                                                                   
Association support  HB 150.   The language for the  bill was                                                                   
taken   from   the   American   Association   of   Radiologic                                                                   
Technicians  who  is  leading  the  movement  for  licensure.                                                                   
There are 41 states that currently have licensures.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Weyhrauch inquired  how many people would lose                                                                   
their jobs if the bill passes.   Mr. Hilyard reported that he                                                                   
couldn't answer  that question  definitively.  Great  measure                                                                   
has been taken to try to prevent job loss. There is a two-                                                                      
year effective  date and  temporary permits  to allow  people                                                                   
time to pass the  examination.  Most of the  people acting as                                                                   
full radiographers today already  have a certification from a                                                                   
national organization  and would  only have  to pass  a state                                                                   
exam.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:52:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Weyhrauch asked  how many complaints have been                                                                   
lodged  because  of  the  current  situation.    Mr.  Hilyard                                                                   
responded that he did not know of any.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch   asked  why  the   legislation  is                                                                   
needed.   Mr. Hilyard  related  that it is  a serious  public                                                                   
health  issue  and  technicians   need  training  to  operate                                                                   
safely.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer noted  that the  training could  be done  on-                                                                   
line.   Mr. Hilyard  agreed.   He explained  that there  is a                                                                   
training  program available  from Washington  for $229.   The                                                                   
additional  change in the  bill states  that any facility  in                                                                   
the state with  a program taught by a radiographer  or doctor                                                                   
would also qualify.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:54:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kerttula noted a  letter in members'  packets                                                                   
from the Alaska State Medical  Association (ASMA) that states                                                                   
they  would  prefer  and  registration  system,  rather  than                                                                   
licensure.   She  wondered  if ASMA  has  since changed  this                                                                   
opinion.   He noted that he  has been working all  along with                                                                   
ASMA.  He asked  that Mr. Jordan, president  of ASMA, respond                                                                   
to that question at a future date.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:55:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kerttula  said she understood the  alarm about                                                                   
unneeded x-rays.  She asked for more information from ASMA.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Holm asked why  dental technicians do not need                                                                   
to be registered.  Mr. Hilyard  replied that dental x-rays do                                                                   
not present  nearly the  carcinogenic  effect as standard  x-                                                                   
rays.  They represent roughly 1/10 the level of exposure.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:56:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE FORD, ALASKA  NATIVE HEALTH BOARD, JUNEAU,  testified in                                                                   
opposition to  HB 150.  He  addressed costs to  rural Alaska.                                                                   
He pointed  out that  there have no  complaints in  Alaska to                                                                   
date.  The current system is very  expensive and the proposed                                                                   
legislation will  increase that  cost.  The legislation  adds                                                                   
requirements  to  those  already  trained.   To  add  another                                                                   
licensing requirement raises issues  of access, disruption in                                                                   
services, and cost.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Ford  mentioned  the possible  danger  of  exposure  for                                                                   
dental hygienists.   He credited Representative  Anderson for                                                                   
attempting  to make  the legislation  "user  friendly".   The                                                                   
bottom  line  is it  is  another  expense  passed on  to  the                                                                   
client.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stoltze   commented  on  a  complaint   by  a                                                                   
constituent regarding costs to  tele-medicine in rural areas.                                                                   
Mr. Ford  replied that this  legislation would  disrupt tele-                                                                   
medicine and tele-radiology.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stoltze offered  that  in the  zeal to  over-                                                                   
protect, some services may be  denied.  Mr. Ford acknowledged                                                                   
that the  motivation for the  legislation is good.   However,                                                                   
there will be  a layer of additional licensing;  in the rural                                                                   
setting, it will be a significant cost.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:01:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker referenced  the newly adopted committee                                                                   
substitute   and  asked   if   Mr.  Ford   agreed  that   the                                                                   
incorporated changes  would be helpful  to rural areas.   Mr.                                                                   
Ford stated  that the legislation  is user friendly,  but the                                                                   
reality is there will be additional costs to the client.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker asked  Mr.  Ford if  he  would have  a                                                                   
different opinion  of the bill if it were limited  to dealing                                                                   
with  the  radiologic  technologist.    Mr.  Ford  stated  it                                                                   
"might" change his opinion.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker  asked   if  the  argument  was  about                                                                   
performing  x-ray   services  as  opposed  to   those  people                                                                   
administering nuclear medicine.   Mr. Ford replied that would                                                                   
relieve some of the concerns.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:03:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CLYDE  PEARCE,   RADIATION  INSPECTOR,  DIVISION   OF  PUBLIC                                                                   
HEALTH,  LABORATORIES,  RADIOLOGICAL  HEALTH,  DEPARTMENT  OF                                                                   
HEALTH  AND SOCIAL  SERVICES, ANCHORAGE,  disagreed with  Mr.                                                                   
Ford.    He apologized  that  he  had  not provided  back  up                                                                   
material  on the  number of  complaints lodged.   He  related                                                                   
several  personal  experiences   when  he  inspected  medical                                                                   
clinics.  He listed several problems  with poor training.  He                                                                   
voiced support of HB 150.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kerttula referred  to a  handout provided  to                                                                   
the  committee about  proper training.   She  asked how  many                                                                   
people operate out of Mr. Pearce's  office.  He explained his                                                                   
set  up as  the only  radiation  inspector for  the State  of                                                                   
Alaska.   Representative Kerttula  asked if more  inspectors,                                                                   
plus better education, or a system  to track the number of x-                                                                   
rays  might be  better than  legislation for  licensure.   He                                                                   
discussed lack  of adequate training.   Mr. Pearce  explained                                                                   
that  40  percent  of  repeat  exposures  were  due  to  mis-                                                                   
positioning  of patient.   He spoke of  the latent  affect of                                                                   
exposure to radiation and pointed  out that few practitioners                                                                   
recognize a radiation injury.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker asked  for  Mr. Pearce's  affiliation.                                                                   
He replied  that he  is the  Chief of  Radiologic Health  for                                                                   
the Department of Health and Social Services.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:15:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR.  WILLIAM  W.  RESINGER,  RADIOLOGIST,   MATSU,  spoke  in                                                                   
support of  HB 150.  He pointed  out that there is  a balance                                                                   
between  the benefits  and the  risks  of employing  ionizing                                                                   
radiation for  medical diagnosis.   Education and  experience                                                                   
are needed to maintain this balance.   A limited radiographic                                                                   
imager should  have the basic training and  experience, which                                                                   
the bill proposes.  HB 150 is  not designed to burden medical                                                                   
providers, but to assure that minimum standards are met.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Resinger shared  that, as a radiologist, he  would not be                                                                   
the person to train or supervise  medical personnel in modern                                                                   
medical  therapy  or surgery.    Neither should  a  physician                                                                   
train  or supervise  medical imagers.   He  defined a  "blind                                                                   
spot"  as a problem,  which one  cannot see.   He  speculated                                                                   
that  if he  misses  an  abnormality  on a  radiograph,  that                                                                   
finding becomes  a blind spot.   Radiologists  are constantly                                                                   
fine-tuning   their  skills   in  order   to  reduce   missed                                                                   
diagnoses.   There  are  occasional abnormalities  missed  on                                                                   
radiographs  performed  in  remote   areas.    Sometimes  the                                                                   
problem is the quality of the  image.  Compliance to national                                                                   
standards   can  be   burdensome,  but   when  criteria   are                                                                   
reasonable, the extra effort is  worth improving the standard                                                                   
of care.  Dr. Resinger opined  that the proposed requirements                                                                   
of HB  150 are reasonable and  should result in  a beneficial                                                                   
effect.   He  stated  a belief  that  the bill  would  reduce                                                                   
"blind spots" in Alaska's medical imaging community.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker asked  for clarification  of the  line                                                                   
between preparing  the image vs. interpreting the  image.  He                                                                   
wondered  if  this  bill  would  license  limited  radiologic                                                                   
technicians  to  read the  images.    Dr. Resinger  said  the                                                                   
radiologists  would do  that.   Representative  Hawker  asked                                                                   
about the  burden on rural  Alaskan providers.   Dr. Resinger                                                                   
noted that there  have to be minimum standards  balanced with                                                                   
reasonable  regulations.    Representative  Hawker  asked  if                                                                   
there  is  a  legitimate  risk  to  address  and  a  need  to                                                                   
establish  regulations.    Dr. Resinger  elaborated  on  past                                                                   
diagnostic concerns.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:22:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DONNA  ELLIOT,  ALASKA  NATIVE TRIBAL  HEALTH  CARE  (ANTHC),                                                                   
agreed  with Mr.  Ford's comments.    ANTHC is  a network  of                                                                   
tribes  which ensures  that all  Alaska  Natives have  health                                                                   
care.   She noted  that it is  difficult to retain  qualified                                                                   
licensed x-ray technician staff  in rural areas.  HB 150 is a                                                                   
concern  for ANTHC  because  it  would place  an  unnecessary                                                                   
burden on x-ray technicians within  the tribal health system.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Joule  asked   what  the   impact  of   this                                                                   
legislation would be to the delivery  system in rural Alaska.                                                                   
Ms.  Elliot  replied  that it  would  negatively  impact  the                                                                   
delivery  of health  care because  it means  another hoop  to                                                                   
jump through.  Representative  Joule asked if it would impact                                                                   
the workforce.  Ms. Elliot replied that it would.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker  asked   if  there  is  a  distinction                                                                   
between urban and  rural service deliveries.   He wondered if                                                                   
ANTHC's  concerns would  be alleviated  if, in the  exemption                                                                   
section,  radiologic  imaging   would  remain  under  current                                                                   
statute on an unregulated basis  in rural Alaska.  Ms. Elliot                                                                   
agreed that would be a step forward.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Joule asked why  the current rural  workforce                                                                   
should  not  be licensed  and  more  qualified.   Ms.  Elliot                                                                   
responded that would be a positive situation.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:29:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DONNA   RUFSHOLM,  CHAIR,   ALASKA   SOCIETY  OF   RADIOLOGIC                                                                   
TECHNOLOGISTS, Homer, shared that  her organization helped to                                                                   
write HB  150.  She elaborated  on why minimum  standards and                                                                   
additional   training  are   needed.     She  mentioned   the                                                                   
carcinogenic  qualities  of radiation  of  which the  average                                                                   
patient is unaware.   She referred to a handout  on misuse of                                                                   
radiation in Alaska (copy on file.)   Blame should not be put                                                                   
on the uneducated operators for  radiation errors.  They have                                                                   
not  been required  to  receive the  correct  training.   She                                                                   
argued  that on-line  training for  $229 is  not a  financial                                                                   
burden.   HB 150  will not  change how  small businesses  and                                                                   
rural clinics operate.  There  are provisions in the bill for                                                                   
rural area concerns.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Holm  referred  to  earlier  testimony  about                                                                   
dental  technicians  and  the  comment  that  they  were  not                                                                   
working with  a high  enough dosage.   He inquired  about the                                                                   
carcinogenic effects  of low doses.   He also  wondered about                                                                   
no reported cases of damage.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Rufsholm   stated  that  dentists  and   hygienists  are                                                                   
regulated under separate statutes.   She said she hopes there                                                                   
is never a  case of dental-related radiation  damage.  Future                                                                   
cases  would be  hard  to track  because  there  is a  latent                                                                   
effect.   There have been  misdiagnosed cases that  cannot be                                                                   
reported.   She  hoped that  HB  150 would  protect both  the                                                                   
patient and the technician.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:37:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker  commented  on various  categories  of                                                                   
risk.  He inquired  where the delineation is  between low and                                                                   
high  risk  factors.   He  asked  about  basic X-rays.    Ms.                                                                   
Rufsholm  gave  examples of  high  and low  risk  procedures.                                                                   
Rural areas  lack sophisticated  equipment used for  CT's and                                                                   
MRI's, and only  general radiological procedures  are seen in                                                                   
the clinics.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker   asked  if  basic  x-rays   could  be                                                                   
permitted without additional training.   Ms. Elliot cited her                                                                   
experience with untrained technicians  and said she could not                                                                   
support that idea.   Representative Hawker referred  again to                                                                   
the basic level  of x-ray and asked why there  is such strong                                                                   
opposition.  Ms. Elliot emphasized  a need for high standards                                                                   
of education, no matter where  the service is performed.  She                                                                   
highlighted strong  points in the bill; it  would create more                                                                   
jobs, and  rural jobs would not  be lost.  She  reported that                                                                   
it is hard to understand why this bill would be opposed.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:47:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer announced that HB 150 would be held over.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SHELLY  HUGHES,  ALASKA  PRIMARY   CARE  ASSOCIATION  (APCA),                                                                   
MATSU, spoke of the health centers  located in rural areas of                                                                   
the state.   She read  from a letter  sent to the  members of                                                                   
the committee  (copy  on file.)   She related  that APCA  has                                                                   
been monitoring  HB 150 to make  sure that rural  sites would                                                                   
not face  hardships as a result  of the bill.   She suggested                                                                   
that other methods,  such as onsite quality  assurance checks                                                                   
be  taken   to  ensure   safety  improvements,   rather  than                                                                   
licensing.  She thanked the bill's  sponsor for reworking the                                                                   
bill to better accommodate community health centers.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hughes turned  attention to page 6, lines 9  and 13.  She                                                                   
suggested a change  from "one" to "two" in section  (b).  She                                                                   
requested that  the Committee carefully weigh  the safety vs.                                                                   
access  issues  of the  bill  and  address the  disparity  in                                                                   
temporary permits.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:51:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BARBARA   HUFF  TUCKNESS,   DIRECTOR   OF  GOVERNMENTAL   AND                                                                   
LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS,  TEAMSTERS LOCAL  959, spoke  in support                                                                   
of  CSHB 150.   She  stated that  she represents  radiologist                                                                   
technologists  in  Homer  who  are already  required  by  the                                                                   
hospital to be  certified.  Certified nursing  assistants and                                                                   
truck drivers  are required  to have a  license.    This bill                                                                   
would provide  certification that  ensures that the  training                                                                   
is  done  at   the  same  level  and  that   the  service  is                                                                   
consistent.  The  bill has gone through many  renditions.  In                                                                   
response to Representative Hawker's  question, she noted that                                                                   
there is  career ladder training,  which allows  for multiple                                                                   
levels of training.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker reported  that the strongest opposition                                                                   
to  the  bill  was  from  the  Alaska  Academy  of  Physician                                                                   
Assistants.    He  questioned  why  they  were  not  here  to                                                                   
testify.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:56:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LOUANNE CHRISTIAN,  STAFF, HOUSE FINANCE  COMMITTEE, informed                                                                   
the  Committee  that Mr.  Hall  from  the Alaska  Academy  of                                                                   
Physician  Assistants wanted  to testify  but was unable  to.                                                                   
Representative Hawker  asked that he  be present at  the next                                                                   
hearing.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly noted  that Don  Smith who is  strongly                                                                   
opposed to  this bill should also  be invited to speak.   Co-                                                                   
Chair Meyer said he is not in  agreement with requesting more                                                                   
public  testimony.  Representative  Kelly  stated that  he is                                                                   
concerned  about costs  and lack  of depth  of experience  in                                                                   
rural areas.   He requested  more information  and discussion                                                                   
of the bill.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HB  150  was   heard  and  HELD  in  Committee   for  further                                                                   
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 334                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act relating to an exemption from and deferral of                                                                      
     municipal property taxes for certain types of                                                                              
     deteriorated property."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HB 334 was scheduled but not heard.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 4:01 PM.                                                                                           

Document Name Date/Time Subjects